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	<title>Comments on: The Chinese Are Stealing Our Jobs</title>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.framingthedialogue.com/archives/the-chinese-are-stealing-our-jobs/#comment-7676</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 01:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.framingthedialogue.com/?p=2843#comment-7676</guid>
		<description>I love your comment about the chinese considering engineers elite.  You should read Winners Never Cheat.  You&#039;ll like that book.

http://www.framingthedialogue.com/archives/winners-never-cheat/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love your comment about the chinese considering engineers elite.  You should read Winners Never Cheat.  You&#8217;ll like that book.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.framingthedialogue.com/archives/winners-never-cheat/" rel="nofollow">http://www.framingthedialogue.com/archives/winners-never-cheat/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.framingthedialogue.com/archives/the-chinese-are-stealing-our-jobs/#comment-7623</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 13:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.framingthedialogue.com/?p=2843#comment-7623</guid>
		<description>My company purchasing goods from China.
Why?!
Because the goods we need are not manufactured in US any longer. US used to be a leader once but now the industry does not exist.
This will happen and will be happening to other industries as well.
Why??
Because labor in China is cheaper. 
Chinese Engineers willing to work and sleep in the office.
Chinese workers do not have union that can request minimum wage even close to the one in US.
They consider engineers and not lawyer the elite.
China tax US goods on the way in
Even if we have goods to sell in China you have to send them to Hong Kong and then pay huge Tarrif and shipping to get to China.
Goverment subsidised industries that sell abroad and that is why in China the same chinese goods cost more then here in US.
China makes sure that they dominate the market till we totally get rid of competing industries.
Tariff is only one way. Wise up guys.
Unless we educate our kids with math and physics we are doomed. We learned how to divide pies (thanks to lawyers and other liberal arts professions) but we do not know any longer how to make it.
So in my opinion as a drastic measure temporary tariff that will subsidize education is must. Maybe some day our leaders will be business people and possibly engineers and they will understand what it takes to invent and deliver to the public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My company purchasing goods from China.<br />
Why?!<br />
Because the goods we need are not manufactured in US any longer. US used to be a leader once but now the industry does not exist.<br />
This will happen and will be happening to other industries as well.<br />
Why??<br />
Because labor in China is cheaper.<br />
Chinese Engineers willing to work and sleep in the office.<br />
Chinese workers do not have union that can request minimum wage even close to the one in US.<br />
They consider engineers and not lawyer the elite.<br />
China tax US goods on the way in<br />
Even if we have goods to sell in China you have to send them to Hong Kong and then pay huge Tarrif and shipping to get to China.<br />
Goverment subsidised industries that sell abroad and that is why in China the same chinese goods cost more then here in US.<br />
China makes sure that they dominate the market till we totally get rid of competing industries.<br />
Tariff is only one way. Wise up guys.<br />
Unless we educate our kids with math and physics we are doomed. We learned how to divide pies (thanks to lawyers and other liberal arts professions) but we do not know any longer how to make it.<br />
So in my opinion as a drastic measure temporary tariff that will subsidize education is must. Maybe some day our leaders will be business people and possibly engineers and they will understand what it takes to invent and deliver to the public.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon @ Social worker jobs</title>
		<link>http://www.framingthedialogue.com/archives/the-chinese-are-stealing-our-jobs/#comment-6527</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon @ Social worker jobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 03:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.framingthedialogue.com/?p=2843#comment-6527</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s bad news for us in more than one way. Chinese products are renown for quality flaws as I&#039;m sure you are aware, if our buildings are going to be made from this you should run for cover!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s bad news for us in more than one way. Chinese products are renown for quality flaws as I&#8217;m sure you are aware, if our buildings are going to be made from this you should run for cover!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.framingthedialogue.com/archives/the-chinese-are-stealing-our-jobs/#comment-6503</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.framingthedialogue.com/?p=2843#comment-6503</guid>
		<description>While it always nice to hear that part of one of my posts is stupid the premise is that most Americans fall for this type of hype.  My line was meant to poke fun at media types and how they sensationalize.  

My questions do have implied answers, but most people do not pay attention would never recognize that.  You make some good points except:

1. labor is cheaper there while more efficient here, but not enough.  Maybe our labor costs are too high?  Shipping on huge boats may be cheaper, but living in the Midwest, they still would have to truck the goods to me.

3. I don&#039;t think that the price increases are nefarious.  It is just business.  When your costs go up so should your prices and those prices are paid by the rest of us.

4. I know and you know, but reporters won&#039;t dig just a little deeper to let the rest of the country know.  The reporter should have done that rather than let the politician get away with those remarks.

Thanks for the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it always nice to hear that part of one of my posts is stupid the premise is that most Americans fall for this type of hype.  My line was meant to poke fun at media types and how they sensationalize.  </p>
<p>My questions do have implied answers, but most people do not pay attention would never recognize that.  You make some good points except:</p>
<p>1. labor is cheaper there while more efficient here, but not enough.  Maybe our labor costs are too high?  Shipping on huge boats may be cheaper, but living in the Midwest, they still would have to truck the goods to me.</p>
<p>3. I don&#8217;t think that the price increases are nefarious.  It is just business.  When your costs go up so should your prices and those prices are paid by the rest of us.</p>
<p>4. I know and you know, but reporters won&#8217;t dig just a little deeper to let the rest of the country know.  The reporter should have done that rather than let the politician get away with those remarks.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: fours</title>
		<link>http://www.framingthedialogue.com/archives/the-chinese-are-stealing-our-jobs/#comment-6502</link>
		<dc:creator>fours</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.framingthedialogue.com/?p=2843#comment-6502</guid>
		<description>&quot;I was trying to visualize how the Chinese snuck over and stole these jobs.  They would certainly have used the largely unprotected southern border with Mexico to take the jobs, but how did they transport the jobs?&quot;

You&#039;re joking, I&#039;m sure, but this struck me as the stupidest line from your post.  Clearly millions of manufacturing jobs have been &quot;transported&quot; overseas since the &#039;50s, either via companies moving their factories moving overseas or by US companies losing out to foreign competition.  Outsourcing allows white-collar firms to do the same thing with many other jobs that only require only phone or Internet connections.

Tariffs are a dangerous tool, to be sure, but certainly each country has a sovereign right to protect its citizens when appropriate.  It&#039;s just a question of weighing costs against benefits.  For example, the US pumps $10 billion in subsidies to the corn industry each year, which some say has bankrupted the Mexican corn industry.  So when faced with a subsidized competitor you can understand the concerns for protecting certain industries.

Your questions include some implied answers but I think you&#039;re missing some key points:

1. The Chinese can afford to build and ship steel pipe cheaply because of they have are much lower labor and related costs for manufacturing.  There is also much less regulatory oversight in the areas of consumer safety (as we saw with the toothpaste and leaden toys incidents) and employee safety, which saves a ton of money (but adds harm to workers and consumers).  Shipping on huge boats is much cheaper and more efficient compared to truck-based shipping.

2. The claim that &quot;subsidies are then paid for by the same Chinese people ... Chinese workers will be required to receive higher wages to pay for the subsidies resulting in higher prices for their produced goods&quot; make sense in a textbook but lacks a connection to reality.  The Chinese government currently holds the largest foreign currency reserves ($2.27 trillion) of any nation.  They can basically spend or subsidize whatever they want without having to tax their workers.

3. Construction projects that require steel pipes will be more expensive if tariffs increase their price.  But I don&#039;t see any nefarious plot to increase energy prices; just a wish (misguided or not) to provide direct assistance (besides handouts or welfare) to US steelworkers.


4. Manufacturing employees in the targeted industries (steel) and their parent companies (e.g. the Luxembourg-based Tenaris owns Maverick Tube Corp), mostly, plus the politicians in the districts and states where they live.

5. Perhaps, but many already do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I was trying to visualize how the Chinese snuck over and stole these jobs.  They would certainly have used the largely unprotected southern border with Mexico to take the jobs, but how did they transport the jobs?&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re joking, I&#8217;m sure, but this struck me as the stupidest line from your post.  Clearly millions of manufacturing jobs have been &#8220;transported&#8221; overseas since the &#8217;50s, either via companies moving their factories moving overseas or by US companies losing out to foreign competition.  Outsourcing allows white-collar firms to do the same thing with many other jobs that only require only phone or Internet connections.</p>
<p>Tariffs are a dangerous tool, to be sure, but certainly each country has a sovereign right to protect its citizens when appropriate.  It&#8217;s just a question of weighing costs against benefits.  For example, the US pumps $10 billion in subsidies to the corn industry each year, which some say has bankrupted the Mexican corn industry.  So when faced with a subsidized competitor you can understand the concerns for protecting certain industries.</p>
<p>Your questions include some implied answers but I think you&#8217;re missing some key points:</p>
<p>1. The Chinese can afford to build and ship steel pipe cheaply because of they have are much lower labor and related costs for manufacturing.  There is also much less regulatory oversight in the areas of consumer safety (as we saw with the toothpaste and leaden toys incidents) and employee safety, which saves a ton of money (but adds harm to workers and consumers).  Shipping on huge boats is much cheaper and more efficient compared to truck-based shipping.</p>
<p>2. The claim that &#8220;subsidies are then paid for by the same Chinese people &#8230; Chinese workers will be required to receive higher wages to pay for the subsidies resulting in higher prices for their produced goods&#8221; make sense in a textbook but lacks a connection to reality.  The Chinese government currently holds the largest foreign currency reserves ($2.27 trillion) of any nation.  They can basically spend or subsidize whatever they want without having to tax their workers.</p>
<p>3. Construction projects that require steel pipes will be more expensive if tariffs increase their price.  But I don&#8217;t see any nefarious plot to increase energy prices; just a wish (misguided or not) to provide direct assistance (besides handouts or welfare) to US steelworkers.</p>
<p>4. Manufacturing employees in the targeted industries (steel) and their parent companies (e.g. the Luxembourg-based Tenaris owns Maverick Tube Corp), mostly, plus the politicians in the districts and states where they live.</p>
<p>5. Perhaps, but many already do.</p>
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		<title>By: The Law - Framing the Dialogue</title>
		<link>http://www.framingthedialogue.com/archives/the-chinese-are-stealing-our-jobs/#comment-6477</link>
		<dc:creator>The Law - Framing the Dialogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.framingthedialogue.com/?p=2843#comment-6477</guid>
		<description>[...] a few days ago I commented on my desire for Americans to learn more about economics.  I also finished the post adding the need to learn about history.  The writings of Frederic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a few days ago I commented on my desire for Americans to learn more about economics.  I also finished the post adding the need to learn about history.  The writings of Frederic [...]</p>
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